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(the guy is camera shy, hence no photo...he probably looks like George Clooney, though) |
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I think that I've always heard music in my head, always had ideas about how things should sound, how they should work. So that led to me starting to play guitar, start writing songs. My initial experience with music was pretty much like everybody else, I formed a band with some friends, we wrote some songs most of which sounded like Cure rip offs, the singer and I started to hate each other ("You only want to write songs about your girlfriend!","You only want to write songs about your ex!","You suck!", "You suck harder!") (in retrospect and to his credit, yes, I did suck at the time…), and we eventually found ourselves singer-less. It was during the hunt for a new singer that I was introduced to the idea of using synths, 'cause we found a really good singer that refused to play with us unless we had "submarine sounds". And this idea intrigued me. Submarine sounds. So I went out and bought a Poly 800 (it was cheap, I knew nothing about keyboards) which led me to appreciate the joys of sequencing and sound sculpture. Which led to me buying one of those QY20 pocket sequencers which led me to the process of writing parts for everybody, which led to the dissolution of the band, which led me to becoming more interested in working with synths on my own. And the ambient sound that I started doing came from that early naiveté, and the realization that I could more fully recreate the songs in my head using synths on my own than I could by telling a traditional band what to do. I didn't really realize that other people did the sort of stuff I was doing at the time, the only real touchstone I had was David Bowie's Berlin albums, so I tried to do stuff like that. Unfortunately I couldn't do that sorta stuff, but I came up with something else, and when I finally let people hear it a number of them were interested in what I was doing, it seemed new to them as well. Other people that heard my stuff recognized certain ideas and started suggesting artists that I should look into, projects to check out, and pretty soon I became aware of the ambient ideal. And I guess having more reference in the genre, my work became more focused. So it's all thanks to that singer that thought I sucked and the other singer that wanted those submarine sounds. Q: It sounds like, more or less, you were always destined to be a solo act. Would it be correct to say that you felt freer to express yourself musically once you went solo and, conversely, do you miss making music with other people? I have always thought the life of an ambient musician was, by necessity, isolating and insular. Is that true for you? Oh yeah, definitely there's a greater level of freedom in being a solo act. Coming back to the idea of hearing music in my head, writing, creating, it's always been more of an instinctual thing, a natural thing in my mind, and I often have difficulty finding words to explain it to others, at least words that do it justice in my mind. As a solo act there's never any struggle to explain my ideas in terms of vocabulary, which I feel is very liberating. I don't think that I miss that struggle very much, I don't regret working on my own in that capacity. With regards to making music with other people, I've done a bit of that since starting mara's torment, but it hasn't been so much collaborative as it's been one or the other of us making something and the other working with that. I've done a few pieces over the internet with a wonderful vocalist named Mannequin+ (call her Na+ for short) that are among my favorite songs I've ever done. In those cases though, our collaborations have always been more of a case of me sending her a finished instrumental piece that she adds vocals to. I'm very pleased with the results of our work together, and I'll probably continue doing things like that with Na+ and others. That said, I don't imagine that I'll sit down and write a piece with anybody in the traditional collaborative way where we debate about where to put the bouncey C or if we should do an 8 or 16 bar bridge. I'm a control freak and I don't always play nicely with others... I'm not sure that I agree with you that an ambient artist is necessarily isolated and insular. I think that an ability to look within oneself to find that internal music is necessary, but I don't think one has to be isolated to do that. I believe more in the idea that the best music comes from the desire to share what's inside of oneself, to try and spread the truths and ideals inside of oneself. While an insular nature might allow one to be more in tune with that inner music, more reflective, more contemplative, I don't think that it's always required to find those truths, those ideals. I think it gives a particular perspective, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I should probably qualify that comment, in that I was speaking from the perspective of the artist. I very much agree that the process of listening to ambient music is something that's very much a solo thing, very much a solitary experience. Though you might have the chance to listen to something with others at a performance or in some sort of setting, I believe that as a genre, ambient is something that inspires a solo journey to the listener. When it's done right it can take the listener on an internal trip to places beyond the imagination. And I think that's part of the genre's appeal, the ability to draw things from the music that key in to our own imaginations, our own visions. Of course all that being said, I'm totally isolated and insular. Like, I mean Totally! I hardly ever leave the house. And yet I've developed this reputation amongst my friends of being a social butterfly which is completely at odds with my perception of myself. Oh well, whatevs. Q: While I still think that ambient music, from the listener's perspective, is more of a solitary experience, I'm also not surprised to read that from you, since you are involved in the Toronto ambient scene which has become, arguably, the "live" ambient music capital of North America. Any idea why Toronto and "The AMBiENT PiNG" have taken off the way they have? Is it something in the water up there? ;-) In primary schools here in Toronto we're taught to sing the ABCs to the tune of Tubular Bells. And most high schools in the city teach kids how to play the entire Heroes album in band classes. You haven't heard anything til you've heard "Blackout" played by a marching band. Anyway, yeahyou're totally right, we're very lucky to have such an incredible ambient music scene here in Toronto. I definitely think that it's largely the result of the commitment that Scott M2 and Jamie Todd of dreamSTATE and the AMBiENT PiNG have made towards creating an environment for artists to perform and grow in. There's a tremendous amount of support that both of them give to the artists in the city, and the artists in turn give something back, coming to shows, collaborating with each other, sharing ideas, inspiring each other, stuff like that. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Scott and Jamie for having created something so successful, something so great. They're wonderful guys and I think that a lot of the electronic artists in Toronto and the surrounding environs, myself included, owe them a tremendous debt of gratitude. I think we're also really lucky in Toronto in that there are so many artists performing incredible music, so many opportunities to see fantastic work being performed live.People like Aidan Baker, both solo and with his improv project ARC, Alan Bloor who does really amazing work bringing together art and music in a really theatrical performance context as both Pholde and Knurl, Eric Hopper who together with a rotating group of artists performs as Sylken, Jim Field who previously performed as part of Rhea's Obsession and now has a couple of projects called Stillcoiled and Spacenoiz, a whole ton of other really amazing talents. And we're also lucky in that we have a number of venues in addition to the PiNG that will allow people to play, as well as some really great promotional people like Greg Clow who does a weekly radio show called Feedback Monitor that's really open to promoting new Canadian electronic artists. We're fabulously lucky to have so many talents all come together in such a supportive manner here in Toronto, and I consider myself to be very lucky to be able to be part of that. Big ups to Tdot! Q: Kathryn, my partner, lived for a while in Toronto and she loved it. Besides the support the city gives to musicians like yourself, are there other things you like about living there? Mmmmmmmm, aside from the fact that it's home? I've lived here my entire life, and though I've traveled around, been to a bunch of really great cities, I would never want to live anywhere else. I love Toronto, I love everything about it. I love the different neighborhoods, particularly the Church and Wellesley area where I live. I love the restaurants, the bars, the clubs. There's a very vibrant arts and entertainment scene in the city, a lot of opportunity to see things, to experience stuff. I love the people, the energy, the spirit of the city. When we went through the blackout in 2003 we saw a really great example of the Toronto spirit in people. Walking down Queen Street on my way home a ton of restaurants were giving away fruit and water to people, pedestrians were directing traffic, there were street parties and impromptu gatherings and it was really indicative of the people that live in this city. I love the sound of the subway, the smell of the city in the fall, the look of the skyline. I love the look of the CN Tower and I equate it with being home. So in answer to your question, I love this town! Q: You're a good advocate for the city, that's obvious. I'm ready to move there myself! Since we're talking a little about in life in general, what part does your music play in your overall life? What occupies you besides mara's torment, music, and the ambient scene? In addition to doing stuff as mara's torment, I've also started an online music boutique called ping things. Every Tuesday night I have a table at the AMBiENT PiNG where I sell discs by some of the artists that have played the PiNG, as well as others that have heard of the 'PiNG through the 'net or what have you. The online portion of the store has been up for a couple of years now, and it's starting to make a presence. You can check it out at http://www.pingthings.com It's something that I've really come to enjoy, it's a great opportunity to give support to some of the wonderful local talents here in Toronto, as well as friends and associates from around the world. I get the chance to share the music I love with a whole ton of other people. It's way cool, you know? Ummmmmm, I also do volunteer work at the AIDS Committee of Toronto (ACT). I do abstracts and indexing and stuff in the library there, which is the largest collection of AIDS related materials in all of North America. It's only for a few hours a week, but it's a really important part of my life, something I get a tremendous amount of pleasure doing. I believe very strongly in the idea that all of us should do our part to help others, and this is how I do my part. Other things? I used to watch too much TV. Alot of Trek, Buffy type stuff, Smallville, The West Wing, Six Feet Under. Not as much any more. Ummmmmmm, I listen to alot of music, though the tendency is to listen to it while I'm doing other things, which I always feel guilty about. I'm doing a lot more reading these days and I'm very much enjoying it. I've been very lucky to have a very well read circle of friends and they've put me in the right direction as far as literary stuff goes.. Ummmmmm, I suppose I do other things, you know, solve mysteries, foil bank robberies, perform exorcisms, but I don't like to talk about that sorta stuff, so we'll just leave it at that shall we? Q: Wow, your plate is ultra-full. Suddenly, I don't feel like I'm anywhere near busy enough! ;-) Kudos to you for your volunteer work. Your sense of humor is, in my experience, somewhat unusual in this genre (among artists, that is). It's refreshing to find someone who doesn't take things, even themselves, so overly-serious. Where does that come from in you? Is it a internet personality" or are you like that in "real life?" Mmmmmmmm, what a dangerous question! =-) I think that humor is something that's missing in a lot of day to day life, and I believe it's important to maintain it where possible. 21st Century living is so extreme, so fast moving, so lacking in human contact, that we often forget the little things like laughing, having fun. I take everything I do seriously, but I believe it's important to maintain some perspective about what I'm doing at any given time, to be able to laugh at myself or the situations around me. On a musical level I guess I've been very lucky in that a lot of the other artists I've met have been very friendly, very positive people who have good senses of humour, so I think it's just natural to interact that way. That's not to say that I get along with everybody. Some people just aren't very accessible, aren't very approachable. But experience shows that a joke or a funny comment will break the ice in most cases. Reading this back I realize it paints a very positive upbeat picture of me. Which is rather off the mark in that I'm very cynical, very pessimistic, rather existential. And probably still possessing a little more teen angst than I should have (hello! mara's torment! C'mon, doesn't that positively reek of the back of my hand stapled to my forehead?) But despite all of that I recognize that there are ways to make things easier, and to be able to laugh or to share a laugh with another is one of those ways... Q: Well, since you bring it up, why IS mara tormented? ;-) Or, maybe the question is why "mara's torment?" While I was in the band with other people we decided that we should change our name when the singer left. And I was really into the idea of a conflicted image, contrasting name, Romeo's Distress, Jane's Addiction, that kind of thing. And so the idea of mara's torment came up, something beautiful, something not. I liked the way it seemed to contradict itself. Needless to say the rest of the band members weren't so hot on it, but I kept the idea and when I started performing by myself it seemed natural to work under that name. I like the idea of having a different name to the project than my own, as it gives a sense of isolation between the music and the person that's creating it. I'm not so readily identified as rik who made that music, instead I find that the work is more easily identified as its own existence this way. As a kid I was always so fascinated by Joy Division and New Order, the way that almost all of their album cover were just still images, designs without any pictures of the band, without any faces. I thought that was really interesting, and I developed an idea that the music exists separate of people, it exists of it's own accord in the aether. It was an attractive idea for me, much more attractive than putting my own face together with my music. I've always wanted to make music that people could identify with themselves rather than identify with me. Mind you, if their identifying the music with me results in my getting laid I'm okay with that too. Priorities, you know? Q: Let's talk about the new music. You've just released three new albums, all different and distinctive. Why three at once and can you clue us in on the differences between them? Actually the number is up to six right now... =) It's not as impressive as it might seem, in that there's a lot of crossover between discs in terms of re-workings, remixes, alternative versions etc. Basically each one represents a live show that I've done in the last year or so. A couple (Chill and Live at Darkrave)were done as chill out rooms at a local rave event called Darkrave put on by the very wonderful and supportive DJ Lazarus here in Toronto. Another, Secret Music (and it's companion piece Body Music) were written for a Fetish night event that I played at a local Goth club called Savage Garden. Reckless Verbiage was done as songs for a chill out room I played at a multi-genre festival put on by the LD50 Crew, and Secrets + Lies was an EP that I released last year that I've put out again with some bonus tracks that I recorded for an AIDS charity event I played at called Fetish Cares. I like the idea of doing new material for each show, new songs, ideas that can be explored. I also try to tailor the set to the kind of show it is, so I can try and do a little bit of genre experimentation. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't... =). Obviously, a rave event would require something a little bit more uptempo, but in a relaxing vein, a little more beats. A fetish night might call for something a little more hypnotic, trance inducing kinda thing. Other shows I might look at who I'm playing with and go for something a little more driving, some drum 'n' bass perhaps (still trying to get the handle on that one...) or something a little more upbeat. I think I've always been about the idea of creating an environment with my music, I've always wanted to create a space to explore, something to envelop oneself in. So I think that's been consistent with the idea of doing specific music for specific shows. I had a bad experience a couple of years ago where I was working on a conceptual based release that was more emotionally tied than situationally, and I found that exposing myself as nakedly, as intimately as that was just too much, I couldn't finish it to my satisfaction. A couple of songs have turned up on other releases, or in demo form, but that music was too stark in my mind to be seen by others. I feel a little more comfortable working with environments now than I do emotions. My new CD which I'm just finishing up as we've been exchanging the questions for this interview is very much an environmentally influenced set of music, very much a set of songs about spaces and atmospheres. It's called cause and effect and it should be available starting August 16th, you can check out my website www.marastorment.com for more information about it. * Another updated note from 2005. The conceptually based release that I mention above was finally finished and has been released on my website in mp3 form for a limited time to members of my mailing list. If you're interested in hearing the gut wrenching torment that I was too scared to release (aka "the last night is the hardest") you can check it out at http://www.marastorment.com in all of it's ooey gooey torment-y goodness. Q: We're picking up the interview after a year and a half gap. Based on your website, you've been ultra-busy with more releases out since the last three I knew about (body music, secret music, and chill), exploring podcasts, even more involvement with the Ping scene, and a new album about to break. How do you find the time to do it all?I just review music and have a once every other week radio show (in addition to real life) and I'm exhausted most of the time! That's a timely question right now 'cause I'm currently unemployed so I have a lot more time than I would otherwise. That said, I've always kept myself busy and I'm pretty well disciplined so it's never been that much of a problem. I find that I stretch myself thin sometimes, certain things take a back seat every so often, but for the most part I can keep up with it all. I don't sleep that much (usually between four to six hours a night) so that helps. The funny thing about it is that I never feel like I'm doing enough, y'know? I always think I should be doing more music or reviewing more CDs or spending more time with my friends or whatever. I'm constantly wishing the day had more hours or something. Of course I always worry about how that would affect the owls, so I just deal with it… Q: There was a lot of discussion on the Hypnos Forum recently about the state of ambient music with many people expressing varying degrees of despair or dissatisfaction about its status in regards to matters such as sales, exposure, too many recordings being released, et al. Also, recently, two more ambient review sites appear to have disappeared (Ambient Musings and Ambient Visions). Do you have any thoughts on this topic? Do you think ambient, as a genre, was healthier years ago or has it stayed relatively stable or do you think it's actually better now than earlier? That's an interesting question that comes up a lot of places these days. I think there are a bunch of factors at work there, but the most prominent in my mind is that the rise in popularity of ambient music as a genre has only been within the last few years and that it's largely been piggybacked along with other movements and fads. I mean, ambient music has been around for years, certainly Eno and Oldfield and Bowie and a bunch of people were laying the groundwork for a movement thirty or forty years ago. But I think that it's only been within the last ten or fifteen years that the ambient scene has been able to gain any credibility as a genre with the rise of both the rave scene and the internet. I think that chill out rooms played a big part in bringing these kinds of sounds to a larger market, brought it to a new generation that might not have headed in that direction otherwise. Similarly, the advent of the internet has put art back in the hands of the average person, and all of a sudden there was a discovery by a lot of people that "Hey, somebody else is making and/or listening to the same sort of stuff that I am!" And in finding that out connections were made, alliances were formed, all of a sudden there was a genre and a recognition for what was being done. And this has only really been within the last ten years or so. I'm trying to remember right now, but when I first joined mp3.com around '97 or '98 I don't think they even had an ambient genre, I think it was all electronica and then ambient came afterward. Then again I might be totally mistaken about that, time has a way of making the memory channels go a little wonky, y'know? Anyway, I think that as a genre there was a much greater sense of discovery a few years ago, and I think that did a lot to inflate the size of the scene, create a bit more hype. There was a lot bigger audience made up of both active and inactive participants and listeners. I think what's happening now is that interest is leveling out, people are looking for new things elsewhere, and so the scene may not have as much influx of new participants, there aren't as many people drawn to something as a new form of music, there aren't as many listeners as there used to be. I think a lot of the electronic disciplines have suffered for exactly the same reason, I mean, trip hop, trance, a bunch of other forms still have some great people doing great things, but the excitement seems to be a little less than it used to be, the genres are starting to be taken for granted. There isn't the same excitement of the new. Add to this the fact that people aren't buying discs anymore and I can see why anybody would feel that the scene isn't as vital. Regardless I want to stress that there is still some amazing music being made these days. We're at a time where technology is accessible and affordable, and the internet allows anybody to put up a song for anybody to hear. In that respect I think that it's an incredibly exciting time to be a music enthusiast, a time where we're hearing voices and ideas that we'd never have had the opportunity to hear before. The only trouble is that because there are so many voices it becomes difficult to hear them all when there isn't a central network or support system to promote them. It's a total drag, and that's why it's so sad when a place like Ambient Visions or Ambient Musings is no longer available as a resource. It's just one less place somebody can go to discover some of the things that are happening… Thank goodness for the AMBiENT PiNG. =-) Q: Extrapolating from your answer above, do you think that, artistically, ambient has peaked or at least leveled out? A lot of people insist that rock music ain't what it used to be so maybe the same thing can be said for ambient music? Or, as someone involved with exploring new talent at the PiNG, do you see new and exciting and innovative artists all the time still? I definitely think that ambient music has a lot of life in it yet, and I'm very lucky to be in a position where I can be exposed to so much of it! I think that this is an incredible time for creation, an incredible time for new talent and new artists to be discovered. I'm regularly blown away by the artists that play the AMBiENT PiNG each week and I'm equally amazed at the talent of the artists that send me discs to review or sell at ping things. People like Jesse Sola of Numina and Deane Hughes of Akumu, and a whole bunch of other people are making absolutely stunning and beautiful work that's just incredible. I really think that we're heading into a golden age in terms of music being made. The difficulty as I suggested above is that the artists of this golden age are going to be really challenged to promote themselves and be heard in such an open market. The sad reality is that resources are so fragmented and markets are so specific that we're almost seeing a return to the days before the internet when a band was limited to whatever audience it could make in it's own town and through touring. There really need to be more global centralized resources for artists to be exposed through, more opportunities for a larger audience to hear different musical styles and hear the work of people in other fields. Something like mp3.com was when it began, without the money and the politics, just a centralized forum for artists to gather and for fans to discover them. I think something like that could really benefit a lot of artists, myself included. Q: Given your feelings of optimism and enthusiasm as stated above, do you feel the same way about your personal future in the music business? Do you see yourself continuing to wear a multitude of hats (reviewer, entrepreneurial retailer, artist, etc.) or do you think you will zero in on one area eventually? Hmmmmmmmm, that's a hard one to answer, it's a lot easier to stand on the outside looking in than to be on the inside looking out. I think every artist tries to be optimistic about their work, I think that every artist hopes that they have a bright future ahead of them with regards to what they do. And I think that hope rings true for me as well, I mean, when you stop believing in what you do? Down that road lies madness my friend… As for wearing different hats, yeah, I don't see any reason to change things now. I get a particular joy out of each aspect of what I do and as long as there's still enjoyment involved in it, I imagine that I'll keep doing it. When it starts to become a hassle I'll start to reconsider, but until then I think I'll keep doing what I do. Thanks for taking the time to re-visit the interview, Rik. It was weird to come back to it after a year and a half, but I'm glad we did. And if Kathryn and I ever get to Toronto, I expect to receive the "grand tour" of Ambient Central! It was my pleasure Bill, thanks for making Wind and Wire such a great resource for the last few years!
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